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| Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:18 pm |
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Pagz
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If theres any relation to the movie i bet it was wicked 
As far as i know theres nothing wrong with a DM as long as its rated for the torque it will see,they are heavier by nature and i think its not possble to re-grind them once they require it.
When i removed mine with the engine in stock form i found that the springs had relaxed slightly so the bolt holes did not line up right and while this is not such a bad thing because you just push the face into place before unbolting,it made me wonder what would happen when we doubled the power,i thought about replacing it with a new one however i wasnt sure what the new one was able to handle,and they cost sh!t loads...so the theory was to just make a single mass thats slightly lighter,also i recall wanting to be able to change the pickup angles as the motec didnt like the crank and cam sensors being so close together...havent tested that yet but will one day.
Its not the block im worried about its the rods and head gasket! 
Im happy with the 570cc twin sprays...power is good and so is idle...its possible we will up boost to max these out but its only a maybe as im more concered with making the system function correctly atm.
edit: just a thought,the 4 cylinder mounts are far to soft,you may want to install the I6 or V8 engine mounts prior to building the turbo setup,this will make the engine sit ever so slightly higher so will effect clearances and down pipe lengths,there will be a slight increase in vibration but its not much,its much better than listening to the header smash the chassis when you launch^^.
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| Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:10 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
If theres any relation to the movie i bet it was wicked
As far as i know theres nothing wrong with a DM as long as its rated for the torque it will see,they are heavier by nature and i think its not possble to re-grind them once they require it.
When i removed mine with the engine in stock form i found that the springs had relaxed slightly so the bolt holes did not line up right and while this is not such a bad thing because you just push the face into place before unbolting,it made me wonder what would happen when we doubled the power,i thought about replacing it with a new one however i wasnt sure what the new one was able to handle,and they cost sh!t loads...so the theory was to just make a single mass thats slightly lighter,also i recall wanting to be able to change the pickup angles as the motec didnt like the crank and cam sensors being so close together...havent tested that yet but will one day.
Its not the block im worried about its the rods and head gasket!
Im happy with the 570cc twin sprays...power is good and so is idle...its possible we will up boost to max these out but its only a maybe as im more concered with making the system function correctly atm.
edit: just a thought,the 4 cylinder mounts are far to soft,you may want to install the I6 or V8 engine mounts prior to building the turbo setup,this will make the engine sit ever so slightly higher so will effect clearances and down pipe lengths,there will be a slight increase in vibration but its not much,its much better than listening to the header smash the chassis when you launch^^. |
Well.. It wasn't identical to the movie.. but it wasn't far off I'll tell you that!! so awesome!!
I'll stick with a single mass as well.. seems like the better choice.. especially if you want to be running a lightened flywheel. thats a bit scary to think that the springs relaxed that much in the short amount of time you've been turbo'd! and I wonder what will happen if you do ever decide to up the boost!?
so will you eventually be running a full stand alone system with the motec?. as very little of the inputs go to the stock ecu now!
you don't think the stock rods will hold up to some serious power? you would know since you had your engine apart.. SEVERAL times! do they seem to be heavy duty.. or just good enough? I don't think the head gasket will be an issue.. the engine is already built for boost with a pretty low compression ratio as it is.
hmm.. do you think it would be wise for me to go with the twin spray injectors as well? I am curious to know if an injector can be too big when running lower hp.. I know the injectors are rated for certain power levels, will I have to keep replacing the injectors as I up the boost to my goals.. or can I just run the large injector I will need for the power I want to be running? I'm guessing I'll be swapping out injectors each time I up the boost!
I remember you having custom mounts poured.. I think I may have to go with some V8 mounts.. make sure its sitting at the correct level before I start the header fabrication. you really have no room around your header do you?!.. I don't want any sounds of my masterpiece of a header hitting the firewall!!
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*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:46 pm |
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Pagz
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The stock DM was relaxing on the STOCK hp SC setup^^
The Motec ecu is a full stand alone system at the moment,the only inputs the bosch ecu has is the original engine temp sensor and crank position which is in parallel with the motec crank input,this was achievable by upping the voltage threshold on the motec ECU so it didnt see the 2v threshold the bosch ecu produces...i havent worked out how to achieve it yet but when i do i will remove the bosch ecu all together...i just need to figure out if the cluster temp and RPM is sent over the CAN system and if its not then can we replicate the correct voltage for water temp and the correct pulses for RPM from the motec ecu so that the cluster works correctly...which i think we can according to the manual.
Edit : Actually i think theres still some inputs from other things like ABS ,as if i recall the SC engages when the car is moving above a certain speed...will sit down and work it out one day when i have a spare few hundred hours
Im not sure why i bent rods...it may have been due to having them peened,or my latest theory was when i cleaned the intake plenum i found that the bell mouths hold water when they are submerged in it...then it runs very very slowly out...#4 seemed to be the worst for holding water,and #4 had the most bent rod!!!...so its very likely they hydroliced on water!. last theory is the first tune we had with detonation caused by all that oil...that can bend things!...anyway...the rods are very good!...the best thing you can do is not touch the internals until they give trouble,just make sure your tuner knows what he's doing.
i run the V8 mounts atm,theres really no other alternative as a 2.3 I4 without balance shafts on hard mounts will kill you and the car very quickly^^.
Yes over sized injectors might not suit low hp or idle(explanined a bit more in that email i just sent you),the problem with injectors is they are sized to work inside a certain window...if you fall outside of this than you need alternative injectors to take over and provide the missing part of the window. ie you have 1200cc injectors mounted nice and far up the intake plenum,this allows time for all that fuel to atomise,while at idle the injectors are too far from the ports at the lower air speed and they virtually drip fuel at the lower duty cycle...this makes idle a pain...so you run smaller injectors with high atmoisation close to the valves which run under light load and lower rpm,this gives stable idle and much better economy.
Im not saying this would be the case if you ran 720cc injectors as i have no experiance on this engine with that size however its somthing to ask your suppliers about!.
based on what i have found with my single spray injectors i would suggest using twin spray...it just makes sense if you angle the fuel at the valves rather than the divider.
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| Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:24 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
The stock DM was relaxing on the STOCK hp SC setup^^
The Motec ecu is a full stand alone system at the moment,the only inputs the bosch ecu has is the original engine temp sensor and crank position which is in parallel with the motec crank input,this was achievable by upping the voltage threshold on the motec ECU so it didnt see the 2v threshold the bosch ecu produces...i havent worked out how to achieve it yet but when i do i will remove the bosch ecu all together...i just need to figure out if the cluster temp and RPM is sent over the CAN system and if its not then can we replicate the correct voltage for water temp and the correct pulses for RPM from the motec ecu so that the cluster works correctly...which i think we can according to the manual.
Edit : Actually i think theres still some inputs from other things like ABS ,as if i recall the SC engages when the car is moving above a certain speed...will sit down and work it out one day when i have a spare few hundred hours
Im not sure why i bent rods...it may have been due to having them peened,or my latest theory was when i cleaned the intake plenum i found that the bell mouths hold water when they are submerged in it...then it runs very very slowly out...#4 seemed to be the worst for holding water,and #4 had the most bent rod!!!...so its very likely they hydroliced on water!. last theory is the first tune we had with detonation caused by all that oil...that can bend things!...anyway...the rods are very good!...the best thing you can do is not touch the internals until they give trouble,just make sure your tuner knows what he's doing.
i run the V8 mounts atm,theres really no other alternative as a 2.3 I4 without balance shafts on hard mounts will kill you and the car very quickly^^.
Yes over sized injectors might not suit low hp or idle(explanined a bit more in that email i just sent you),the problem with injectors is they are sized to work inside a certain window...if you fall outside of this than you need alternative injectors to take over and provide the missing part of the window. ie you have 1200cc injectors mounted nice and far up the intake plenum,this allows time for all that fuel to atomise,while at idle the injectors are too far from the ports at the lower air speed and they virtually drip fuel at the lower duty cycle...this makes idle a pain...so you run smaller injectors with high atmoisation close to the valves which run under light load and lower rpm,this gives stable idle and much better economy.
Im not saying this would be the case if you ran 720cc injectors as i have no experiance on this engine with that size however its somthing to ask your suppliers about!.
based on what i have found with my single spray injectors i would suggest using twin spray...it just makes sense if you angle the fuel at the valves rather than the divider. |
I'm surprised at how much you can do with the Motec unit.. its very tunable! I guess it has to be since its a complete control module to replace any factory one. so you think eventually you will completely remove the bosch unit and just run the Motec? is it capable of sending can system signals?
you will need to sit down and give it a read over again to figure everything out! and so you can rewire the engine again.. seems like you've done that one too many times as it is though!
Well that sounds like a pretty good theory to me.. hydrolocking will bent rods very easily! and I completely agree with that statement.. if it aint broke don't fix it!! I will for sure leave all the internals alone until they give me any troubles. Im sure they will hold up to the HP/
I read that info in your email! thanks for that. it's always good to know someone that has already gone through it! I'll read up what you wrote again.
I had thought about doing that too.. running 2 sets of injectors. I could have my stock ECU take care of idle and lower boost demands.. then use my AEM unit to control the second set of fuel injectors for boost situations. in theory its a good idea.. in reality I don't know if it will work well on my intake set up, well future intake set up. it would be just a matter of having the injectors aimed correctly and at the right distance. could be very difficult to do.. which means I'll have to be buying 2 or 3 sets of injectors as I go along with boost increases. which I don't mind doing, I'm sure I can sell the spare injectors once I'm onto the next set! but even 720cc injectors with my engine at idle may not idle well even if I'm running high HP correct? or would it be okay since it will be tuned for the HP?
I'll have to do some searching for twin spray injectors now!
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*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:07 pm |
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Pagz
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I'd like to think so for all the money i payed for it! ^^,it does have its own CAN system however its used to communicate with other Motec components so i doubt that's compatible.
no no definitly not wiring the engine ever again(i hope)...this time(3rd) took 10 times longer to do as it was a proper install with nylon braid,refreshed plugs and a few new ones too(from lsxtune in US),i didnt do it on the 2nd re-wire as i wasnt sure where i was going to mount the motec and i knew i would eventually install idle control and closed loop,so the motec has spent 3 years behind the floor mat on the passenger side with a whole heap of loose cables wrapped around it!.
It would be a good idea to talk to the injector supplier about how well the 720cc injectors will work at idle...Iv just had a troll around the net and guys are running 740 and even 1000 WITHOUT idle issues on there 2 - 2.3l engines based on that the 720cc's could be completely fine!
have a read of this: large injectors thread
Looks like your idle will also be effected by how good you ECU is and if it can accurately adjust the coarse flow of large injectors at idle.
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| Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:00 am |
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dokotela
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| Pagz wrote: |
| My stock ones were split spray siemens 280cc...pretty small. I now use 570cc split spray and we still have a little more duty cycle left. |
did you get another siemens injector? or did you build a custom fuel rail with any aftermarket injector?
doesnt the car have its fuel pressure regulator at the pump?
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| Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:09 pm |
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Pagz
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Initially i did use a siemens 550cc single spray,however these didnt seem to atomise very well which was very apparent when we installed the Evo 7-9 560cc injectors(forget the make)
In my stack of MB info i have a description of how the emission control works on the M111,which is that intake valves open well before TDC on the exhaust stroke,this allows some of the exhaust to enter the intake before being sucked back in on the intake stroke,which can make for deposits around the ports. When we had the 550cc injectors there were clear spray patterns inside the ports which showed that fuel was predominantly hitting the divider,so the single spray injectors may have worked better if mounted slightly further back.
all this injector talk has got me thinking.....iv always had some fuel residue buildup in the intake runners...its a thick yellow colour,at first i though it was oil but its much more like reduced fuel...i bit like pouring wine into a pan and reducing it...the OE engine had this in the intake as well,so im doubting its a product of the issues iv had,however thinking about the emission setup and timing...its likely it could just be that the injector is firing too early so the reversion is leaving a small amount up the tract...this could also explain why we get some black smoke under WOT even with what looks like a perfect AFR.
anyways im sure you guys can fix these problems for me once yours is running
edit: The rising rate fuel pressure regulator is on the return side of the fuel rail,which im not sure if its a 1:1,and if its a 1:1 whats pressure will it work upto?...you will need to chase that up Ross does MB have any specs on that sort of thing?...alternatively just install an aftermarket one and remember to set the fuel pressure with the vaccum line DISCONNECTED...lol.
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| Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:32 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:40 pm |
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Pagz
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I resued the wire i got from the motec universal M800 loom i got a few years back,cant remember exactly what happened back then but when i got the motec i got both plugs and all the pins etc,then i decided on using there loom so that comes with new plugs and high quality wire...this time round i just cut up the motec wires and re-pined most of them with the spare pins i had,pretty tricky without the official crimp tool(costs 500nzd lol) but managed to make it pretty nice using two different crimpers i had...if your going to make the loom make it with high spec wire it will be worth it!...i think the stuff from lsxtune is mil-spec so would be ideal,however not sure how much that would cost!...im sure theres plenty of quality alternatives out there.
Pretty sure you will find all oe M111 FPR is variable depending on MAP(but as you say they have no adjustablility),ie for every pound of boost you will see a one pound increase in FP(or a decrease for vaccum). pump outlet pressure is dependant on what the regulator is doing.
My stock one was,but i never checked what range it worked upto or if i could even use it with the larger injectors etc... i just installed an adjustable one anyway incase we needed to up it slightly...think we ended up around the 43psi mark(which was possibly stock pressure),i think injectors are built to work at that pressure so the spray patterns are good etc etc,i dont think you get alot more out of them by increaseing the pressure beyond that...though thats just what iv heard.
Will be interesting to see how the 720's run!!....any thought about the stock fuel pump? i think mine is still doing ok however im not sure of its limits...the fuel lines are around -6 size if i recall,im not sure how that will go with your hp goals...but i think it will be best just to only replace it if it does limit you.
Any work done over the weekend? 
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| Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:24 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
I resued the wire i got from the motec universal M800 loom i got a few years back,cant remember exactly what happened back then but when i got the motec i got both plugs and all the pins etc,then i decided on using there loom so that comes with new plugs and high quality wire...this time round i just cut up the motec wires and re-pined most of them with the spare pins i had,pretty tricky without the official crimp tool(costs 500nzd lol) but managed to make it pretty nice using two different crimpers i had...if your going to make the loom make it with high spec wire it will be worth it!...i think the stuff from lsxtune is mil-spec so would be ideal,however not sure how much that would cost!...im sure theres plenty of quality alternatives out there.
Pretty sure you will find all oe M111 FPR is variable depending on MAP(but as you say they have no adjustablility),ie for every pound of boost you will see a one pound increase in FP(or a decrease for vaccum). pump outlet pressure is dependant on what the regulator is doing.
My stock one was,but i never checked what range it worked upto or if i could even use it with the larger injectors etc... i just installed an adjustable one anyway incase we needed to up it slightly...think we ended up around the 43psi mark(which was possibly stock pressure),i think injectors are built to work at that pressure so the spray patterns are good etc etc,i dont think you get alot more out of them by increaseing the pressure beyond that...though thats just what iv heard.
Will be interesting to see how the 720's run!!....any thought about the stock fuel pump? i think mine is still doing ok however im not sure of its limits...the fuel lines are around -6 size if i recall,im not sure how that will go with your hp goals...but i think it will be best just to only replace it if it does limit you.
Any work done over the weekend? |
Lucky you had all that wire and pins sitting around! I do agree.. mil spec wire is key. I think it will probably cost a bit to make a harness no matter where I get the wire from! I'd prefer to be able to buy the exact colours benz uses as well, so I can keep the wiring diagrams useful in finding things! if I switch out all the wire colours I wont remember what the hell is what!
how does a crimper cost that much?! I can find a decent one for under $100 probably. but then again, most of the stuff cant be bought local with you I'm guessing.. shipping is a killer!
I think ideally I should be using an adjustable FPR depending on the boost. my buddy that runs a turbo VR6 MK2 golf drag car has one in his car. that thing is crazy fast! went and watched him drag it at the first cscs race 2 weekends ago. he was pulling high 12 seconds runs.. but then just as the track was starting to dry off enough (rained in the morning) he blew up 3rd gear.
it seems most aftermarket injectors are actually taller then a stock injector.. so I may run into problems with finding something to fit into my stock fuel rail for now. I think I'll be good with some 520cc injectors for the time being.. then upgrade later on when I up the boost for the 720's.
The stock fuel pump will stay, but I will have to add in another pump for the flow and volume. and I think for now I should be okay with fuel line size.. I agree with you, only if I run into issues will I replace it with larger diameter.
No haven't done ANY work on my w202 in a while bro.. haven't even had a chance to drop my w210 more.. been busy lately.. plus I met this new girl!
I do really need to get my KW shocks out and shipped off to KW for them to inspect them and rebuild them. gotta get on that.
_________________
*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:52 am |
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Pagz
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Getting the correct colour codes would be pretty trick,you would want to only get enough for each run of that colour otherwise you would have waayyy to many unused rolls^^.
Thinking long term though...i predict you will eventually go with a stand alone ECU...so dont worry too much about wire colours...the engine loom is incredibly simple once you have built it yourself;).
...omg @ crimp tools...they are everywhere and cost nothing to everything but the most annoying thing about it is every single plug in the whole world uses a different crimp size...the proper crimp tool for the motec 100 series "AMP" plugs is the Tyco Pro-crimp 3,the crimp handle is cheap as...but the die that goes in it to suit the pins is wicked expensive^^...the tolerance for the motec pin is like 0.1mm,if you dont get it right you crush/split/damage the pin or,it just doesn't slide into the plug or damages the seals if it does lol..i borrowed one crimp tool off a workmate to do the round insulation crimp and used the crimper i already had for the wire part..it worked but was extremely marginal and it was only around 0.2mm too big( Crimp tool thread )
12's is a quick car!,bummer he blew the box!!..yep its likely you will need to make yourself a new fuel rail if your running different inlet sizes on the injectors...however if there only slightly taller or shorter you may be able to space or cut the rail stands and just reuse the oe rail!...though if you run the oe rail you will want to remove the FPR and if your going to do that you might as well just make a new rail with an aftermarket FRP.......where does it stop?!?! ^^...iv got my old custom rail lying around however its unlikely to suit as its made for the OE style injector!.
I would imagine running the smaller injectors with a piggy back setup will be much easier,did you find any split spray?
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| Any work done over the weekend? smile |
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| No haven't done ANY work on my w202 in a while bro.. |
| Quote: |
| plus I met this new girl! |
 lol
Its all good bro ill start over by asking that question every 3 months from now on ^^
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| Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:18 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
Getting the correct colour codes would be pretty trick,you would want to only get enough for each run of that colour otherwise you would have waayyy to many unused rolls^^.
Thinking long term though...i predict you will eventually go with a stand alone ECU...so dont worry too much about wire colours...the engine loom is incredibly simple once you have built it yourself;).
...omg @ crimp tools...they are everywhere and cost nothing to everything but the most annoying thing about it is every single plug in the whole world uses a different crimp size...the proper crimp tool for the motec 100 series "AMP" plugs is the Tyco Pro-crimp 3,the crimp handle is cheap as...but the die that goes in it to suit the pins is wicked expensive^^...the tolerance for the motec pin is like 0.1mm,if you dont get it right you crush/split/damage the pin or,it just doesn't slide into the plug or damages the seals if it does lol..i borrowed one crimp tool off a workmate to do the round insulation crimp and used the crimper i already had for the wire part..it worked but was extremely marginal and it was only around 0.2mm too big( Crimp tool thread )
12's is a quick car!,bummer he blew the box!!..yep its likely you will need to make yourself a new fuel rail if your running different inlet sizes on the injectors...however if there only slightly taller or shorter you may be able to space or cut the rail stands and just reuse the oe rail!...though if you run the oe rail you will want to remove the FPR and if your going to do that you might as well just make a new rail with an aftermarket FRP.......where does it stop?!?! ^^...iv got my old custom rail lying around however its unlikely to suit as its made for the OE style injector!.
I would imagine running the smaller injectors with a piggy back setup will be much easier,did you find any split spray?
| Quote: |
| Any work done over the weekend? smile |
| Quote: |
| No haven't done ANY work on my w202 in a while bro.. |
| Quote: |
| plus I met this new girl! |
lol
Its all good bro ill start over by asking that question every 3 months from now on ^^ |
Yes I completely agree.. I don't really have any interest in buying rolls of wire.. I'll have so much of it left over. I think that site you referred to sells it by the foot. but if thats the case, I'll try and find something locally.
do you really think I'll be going completely stand alone in the future? I hope not!.. I bought this AEM unit! maybe once I'm getting to my goals of hp.. maybe then I will have to go stand alone. I guess time will tell that.
that is pretty funny.. a thread about a crimper tool! well I wouldn't expect the crimper tool to be that much.. but I guess if you're getting a tool that can be used with many different wire gauges, the tool itself will always be cheap.. they always get ya on the part you need more then the tool.. the dies!! I know how them companies think!
12's are definitely quick.. there were civic hatch backs running low 9's!!!! my buddies car is pretty quick.. he's putting almost 500hp to the wheels.. stock block too!.. no internal mods. he just switched to a 40 series garrett turbo.. new software, larger injectors. car is wicked fast. he has been looking for some sort of aftermarket gear set for the trans.. found one made by some company that makes nascar parts I think.. found a 1,2,3 gear set for $2000!! he is probably going to get it. whatever is weak in the car.. its gonna break! first he kept breaking axles.. now the trans!
And if I am making a custom fuel rail.. why not just make a custom intake manifold to go with it!! I know.. it NEVER ends!! I'll stick with what I have for now.. running 10lbs of boost I should be okay with stock injectors. when I up the boost to 15lbs, I may want to upgrade the injectors. but I don't think I'll be making the intake manifold until late this year.. or early next year. it also depends on how much work I can get done on the car between now and the end of summer!
I think I may have found some split sprays.. made by RC engineering. they have saturated (high impedance) and peak and hold (low impedance) injectors. I'm just waiting on confirmation if they carry split spray as well. about $98 each for some 750cc saturated injectors. they say they are about 1 to 2 centimeters taller then oem injectors.
| Quote: |
| Any work done over the weekend? smile |
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| No haven't done ANY work on my w202 in a while bro.. |
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| plus I met this new girl! |
lol
LMAO!! I know brother!.. I just haven't had time to do anything to my car lately. need to soon though.
and this girl I met is really sweet. she has my attention! and I cant stop thinking about her.
_________________
*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:16 pm |
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Logic
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| Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:35 am |
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cbw202
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sooo sickk wow!
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| Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:25 am |
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cbw202
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SLAMMED C
Of course it is, you would just want to run low boost on your engine.
I have a OEM supercharger kit for sale (from my car if you wanted to supercharge instead) comes with all the brackets and pretty much everything necessary to bolt it right up. you would be running 5.5psi with the OEM Kompressor set up.
DO YOU STILL HAVE THIS AND HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT, THIS WILL WORK ON A 97 C230 RIGHT?
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| Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:33 pm |
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Pagz
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I think you will find in the long term the OE setup will be tricky to keep in conjunction with the power you want to achieve!...but for now just go with what you have...it will be interesting to see what you can get out of it with the AEM!
Ouch 2000us for gearbox bits,i guess thats just part of the game when racing!.
Sounds like a good idea keeping the stock fuel system for now,if yours are the 280cc ones like mine i dont think you will get that much more out of them than stock hp however it will be very intersting to see the results you get!!
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LMAO!! I know brother!.. I just haven't had time to do anything to my car lately. need to soon though.
and this girl I met is really sweet. she has my attention! and I cant stop thinking about her. |
There was ment to be more down time than this you owe it to the 202^^... haha jks all good bro glad things are swinging your way again!.
I couldnt make an account on that euromods forum for some reason however i found this turbo 202(think its the one) on MBworld so re-hosted the pics to post here:
From these pics theres a million things i want to discuss with this setup ,like the use of head studs,copper look head gasket,custom rods,heavy porting and possibly larger valves?,what looks like a cut and modified intake plenum from the older M111(you could do that also but make the plenum better imo,how does #4 even get air^^)),what did he do with the engine mounts,knifed crank,whats vibration like with a light wieght pully crank and FW,is that a stock FPR i see or a blank off,how does that wastegate not pound the firewall,whats heat like with the WG up there,is that 27psi on av-gas?,whats the engine like at 6800rpm and is that stock cams and lifters,how is surge with the GT35,it looks like the water jacket is taken from the top of the thermostat and returned into the header tank....theres just not enough time in this one sitting^^..but to sum it up:
Would be good too see some dyno shapes with that 530hp ^^
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| Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:23 pm |
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Pagz
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Always wondered if bonnet vents would look good on the 202...thought maybe i could make a discrete one around the back of the bonnet to allow all that heat to escape from around the turbo,since your soon to be in the same boat heres a pic of what it looks like with what i would call JDM style vents,a bit aggressive for me....and is that a modified BMW front???... lol. Doesnt look thaaaat bad though bet that lip is hard to keep intact.
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| Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:29 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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Siiiiiiiiick!!.. how the flip did he get a GT3585 to work well in that car?! thats what I originally wanted to do!!
| cbw202 wrote: |
SLAMMED C
Of course it is, you would just want to run low boost on your engine.
I have a OEM supercharger kit for sale (from my car if you wanted to supercharge instead) comes with all the brackets and pretty much everything necessary to bolt it right up. you would be running 5.5psi with the OEM Kompressor set up.
DO YOU STILL HAVE THIS AND HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT, THIS WILL WORK ON A 97 C230 RIGHT? |
yes I do still have this!.. I'm asking $2500 OBO.. it will bolt up to a stock C230.. you will just have to figure out a few things. like powering the supercharger clutch. few other small things. the "kit" includes OEM crank pulley, alternator bracket, alternator pulley, belt tensioner for the sc side, intercooler, intercooler pipe, OEM Eaton SC. PM me if you are interested at all. maybe we can work out a deal.
| Pagz wrote: |
I think you will find in the long term the OE setup will be tricky to keep in conjunction with the power you want to achieve!...but for now just go with what you have...it will be interesting to see what you can get out of it with the AEM!
Ouch 2000us for gearbox bits,i guess thats just part of the game when racing!.
Sounds like a good idea keeping the stock fuel system for now,if yours are the 280cc ones like mine i dont think you will get that much more out of them than stock hp however it will be very intersting to see the results you get!!
| Quote: |
LMAO!! I know brother!.. I just haven't had time to do anything to my car lately. need to soon though.
and this girl I met is really sweet. she has my attention! and I cant stop thinking about her. |
There was ment to be more down time than this you owe it to the 202^^... haha jks all good bro glad things are swinging your way again!.
I couldnt make an account on that euromods forum for some reason however i found this turbo 202(think its the one) on MBworld so re-hosted the pics to post here:
From these pics theres a million things i want to discuss with this setup ,like the use of head studs,copper look head gasket,custom rods,heavy porting and possibly larger valves?,what looks like a cut and modified intake plenum from the older M111(you could do that also but make the plenum better imo,how does #4 even get air^^)),what did he do with the engine mounts,knifed crank,whats vibration like with a light wieght pully crank and FW,is that a stock FPR i see or a blank off,how does that wastegate not pound the firewall,whats heat like with the WG up there,is that 27psi on av-gas?,whats the engine like at 6800rpm and is that stock cams and lifters,how is surge with the GT35,it looks like the water jacket is taken from the top of the thermostat and returned into the header tank....theres just not enough time in this one sitting^^..but to sum it up:
Would be good too see some dyno shapes with that 530hp ^^ |
I will indeed have to see what I can get out of my AEM unit.. hopefully it will be tunable enough that I wont have to go stand alone.. but time and tuning will tell me that!
I know!.. so expensive this racing thing! and at the end of the drag season the payout for first isn't that much.. will never cover the cost of going to each race! but this is something you do for the love of it.. for the enjoyment.. just like modding a car.
I'm going to have to figure out what size my stock injectors are.. they must be decent enough to run 12lbs fo sc boost! and I was still running rich too. gotta figure out what they are.
yeh I know.. more down time and more w202 time! but shit happens.. still looking for a house, so no more progress (turbo install wise) until I have a work space to do the turbo header mock up. thanks bro. things are looking good again.
wow.. I have so many questions for him too!! how the flip did he manage to get a GT3582 to work?!! thats what I was originally going to be running.. I should have stuck with it!! no no.. no regrets.. the GT3076 will put down some siiick numbers too. I hope! I think I will have to be running head studs too.. best thing to do for the boost he is running. I wonder about the pistons and rods though.. why did he swap them? lower compression more.. just more heavy duty. the head work looks nice.. heavy port work there! yeh what's with the intake manifold.. may be a bit restrictive there. some very trick bits though. I tried joining that site too.. but for some reason no email to confirm my account. and how did he get 6800rpm?! I need to up my rpm limit.. 5600 is waaaaaaaaaay to low!.. need somewhere around 6500 I think.
| Pagz wrote: |
Always wondered if bonnet vents would look good on the 202...thought maybe i could make a discrete one around the back of the bonnet to allow all that heat to escape from around the turbo,since your soon to be in the same boat heres a pic of what it looks like with what i would call JDM style vents,a bit aggressive for me....and is that a modified BMW front???... lol. Doesnt look thaaaat bad though bet that lip is hard to keep intact.
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very cool.. not a huge fan of the vents.. but they look decent. I have thought about this myself Paul.. and I will be doing some sort of hood vents.. they wont be as rice as those.. but they will be there! I think its a huge help in getting some of that heat out. I have been searching for a certain hood vent.. its REALLY hard to find. so hopefully I can source them out (as I need 2) and get them molded into the hood.
that bumper kind of looks bmwish.. maybe a modified bumper frankensteined to the w202 bumper?! different.. dont like it too much.. and yes it must be hard to keep clean!! sccrrrrraaaaaape!
_________________
*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:01 am |
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Pagz
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| Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:00 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
| ]Siiiiiiiiick!!.. how the flip did he get a GT3585 to work well in that car?! thats what I originally wanted to do!! |
Nowhere does it say it works well
| Quote: |
I'm going to have to figure out what size my stock injectors are.. they must be decent enough to run 12lbs fo sc boost! and I was still running rich too. gotta figure out what they are.
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Grab the numbers off them i will compare it to mine!...i had mine flow tested at 280cc!
| Quote: |
wow.. I have so many questions for him too!! how the flip did he manage to get a GT3582 to work?!! thats what I was originally going to be running.. I should have stuck with it!! no no.. no regrets.. the GT3076 will put down some siiick numbers too.
Read all of this
...and read the first post
I hope! I think I will have to be running head studs too.. best thing to do for the boost he is running. I wonder about the pistons and rods though.. why did he swap them? lower compression more.. just more heavy duty. the head work looks nice.. heavy port work there! yeh what's with the intake manifold.. may be a bit restrictive there. some very trick bits though. I tried joining that site too.. but for some reason no email to confirm my account. and how did he get 6800rpm?! I need to up my rpm limit.. 5600 is waaaaaaaaaay to low!.. need somewhere around 6500 I think.
The catch with head studs is they will likely be custom so you need to do the homework so you dont end up with distorted cylinder walls or a distorted head from excessive clamping...its something i spoke to many builders about when i planned to do it.
The engine is the NA 230 and the custom pistons look to have more dish than usual so i would think at 27psi they would have to be a lower compression for sure!.
Would be most intersting to see the dyno runs from low in the rpm range,heavy port work will shift power higher up and create less torque down low,which would slow spool time.
I would like to run higher rpm than my 6300 limit i run now too...i need to sit down and do the homework on the valve train,rods and crank etc and compare with other similar setups running higher rpm...its always debatable when stress is rising at the square of rpm + a lack of balance shafts.
what is really interesting is that copper coloured head gasket...is it all copper or a composite?...is it custom??...i put some thought into getting a copper one made however i was turned off by the fact they are prone to leakage and corrosion. |
lol.. very true Paul! it does not say anywhere it works well!
The next time I'm working on my W202 (who knows when that will be!) I'll look for the numbers off of the injectors.. oh and as for the 750cc injectors.. I got a reply back from RC Engineering, the 750cc injectors they have are not split spray.. his exact words "The 750cc injector is not available in a split spray pattern. The injector is designed with a three hole orifice with a 10-15 degree spray pattern", so I don't know if this helps me out at all?!
that W124 cab with the turbo sounds interesting.. but I don't know how he is running stock injectors?!
how come you never went with head studs? seems like a good idea. and yes they will most likely have to be custom.. just like everything else for our cars!
Oh okay.. I never read that part! so its an NA engine.. why wouldn't he swap it out for a Kompressor M111?! but I guess make it reliable even if its the NA version.. definitely has to be pistons to lower compression.
hmm.. good point. its already a damn huge turbo.. then with the head work.. the thing must spool up super late?! I don't want to lose too much of my bottom end, but I do want to have some nice top end as well.
I think a good rpm limit is somewhere near 6500. anything higher and it might be some $$$ to fix! but the 5600 I'm running now is not going to do it. I will need to get that raised (on my stock ECU). and then if in the future I go stand alone.. I can do it myself! may have to give Upsolute a visit to have them retune my stock ecu for the rpm change.
copper is very soft.. I wouldn't expect it to be good on its own as a head gasket? I would stick with the oem one.. at least you know its going to be reliable.
_________________
*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:10 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:05 am |
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Pagz
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Yo,late reply,work was all i could think about in the last 14 days of 12 hour night shifts lol.
Ah yeh i found the same problems when i looked for injectors,everything above ~600 was single spray only,which imo is fine though i think they just need to be mounted further up the runner. if that guy is running stock injectors he will be running larger ones up stream i would think!.
At the time i was building mine I decided that doing head studs was going to be overkill for the hp i wanted,+ it was just another thing to go wrong should we over do the clamping pressure. if my gasket fails i may do them but i will make a torque plate before having it honed to minimize possible issues form the higher clap.
Not sure why he used the n/a engine,it may just be what was available,wonder if the block deck height is the same on the n/a M111's vs komp?
How tunable is your stock ecu?...might be worth talking to upsolute as it would be good if you could do almost all of it on your oe ecu and use your AEM just to control larger injectors?
NICE!!! that band saw looks like its built solid,the quality of the older stuff is pretty amazing in most cases!...looks heavy!,have you had her up and running yet??
cheers
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| Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:56 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
Yo,late reply,work was all i could think about in the last 14 days of 12 hour night shifts lol.
Ah yeh i found the same problems when i looked for injectors,everything above ~600 was single spray only,which imo is fine though i think they just need to be mounted further up the runner. if that guy is running stock injectors he will be running larger ones up stream i would think!.
At the time i was building mine I decided that doing head studs was going to be overkill for the hp i wanted,+ it was just another thing to go wrong should we over do the clamping pressure. if my gasket fails i may do them but i will make a torque plate before having it honed to minimize possible issues form the higher clap.
Not sure why he used the n/a engine,it may just be what was available,wonder if the block deck height is the same on the n/a M111's vs komp?
How tunable is your stock ecu?...might be worth talking to upsolute as it would be good if you could do almost all of it on your oe ecu and use your AEM just to control larger injectors?
NICE!!! that band saw looks like its built solid,the quality of the older stuff is pretty amazing in most cases!...looks heavy!,have you had her up and running yet??
cheers |
Got you email and replied bro.. no worries. I've been busy at work too.
The injectors I found (750cc) are single spray.. I will have to buy a different set of injectors first anyways when running 10-15psi of boost.. so I will find some nice 550cc or something with split spray and then decide on the 750cc later n for when I make my intake manifold.
that is true.. but I think in the end the head studs will be far superior. have a buddy that put a turbo kit into his Z3 M roadster.. he is running 11psi right now, his turbo kit came with a set of head studs. but he has done a stage 2 kit (head spacer) and is making some pretty serious power! he should be running 15psi.. but he thinks he has a boost leak somewhere.
That I'm not sure of.. I may have to contact Upsolute and see how much they can actually tune my ECU.. but I think I'm still better off keeping the tune I have.. and then running the piggy back AEM unit, and then running the secondary injectors, or just forget about my stock ecu running injectors and use the AEM unit to run the primaries. at least this way I can tune them completely.
no, haven't had the chance to get the band saw running! need to get a replacement drive belt first. sick looking mill you got there man!! something I'd love to have.
_________________
*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:58 am |
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Pagz
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You'll have to send it again,it got bounced back as my work email said it had "profanity"...LOL
It will be interesting to see how the ECU tuning pans out and how you get it all to work in together!...thats a big job ahead ,i guess using the AEM to control primaries is the best way in the interim as you might have trouble trying to get the bosch to run larger injectors...alternatively if you have trouble with larger injectors/idle in the future i would guess you could run the bosch with stock injectors and tune the AEM to run the larger single spray up stream with that new manifold!(just guessing as iv never done this)
The mill is awsome,though just spent 2 1/2 days completely disassembling,cleaning off the protective wax/grease that's contaminated with metal shavings throughout,re-greasing and re-assembling,gettign the thrust bearings in the spindal just the right tightness was pita...,the whole neighborhood smells like kerosene . got it working last night and engraved "Jenn" on a piece off alloy haha,was a bit rough but she liked it^^. Took the c36 bumper in for painting today...as those stainless brackets are on back order in germany iv had to fabricate two of the three brackets and relocated/slot every hole for the chrome to fit properly...or as i found out today..after a trip to the chrome removers is actually polished stainless which is convenient hopefully the paint sticks ok.
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| Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:19 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:51 am |
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eundaddy
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| found your thread! looks great, i especially like the 6 spd trans! i've been dying to do this on my c43. |
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| Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:40 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:53 pm |
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Pagz
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| SLAMMED_C wrote: |
lol.. damn work email kicking it back! I resent it.. I took a read through and changed any profanity I found! hopefully you'll get it this time.
I think the AEM unit will be best too.. I don't think the Bosch unit will be able to handle the huge injectors! I still have been unsuccessful in finding a company that makes 750cc split spray injectors! hopefully I'll find something. That is definitely an option. but it will be another huge project to take on if I do the injectors further up the runner. could be pretty trick if its done right!
awesome!! glad to hear that mill is running. nice touch with making something for Jenn!! good man! so what's the first thing you machine for your car?!
well there is SOME good news.. at least what I also thought is chrome is just polished stainless.! so you ended up fabricating the brackets for the bumper. I hope everything fits well. guess you must be chomping at the bit to get it painted and mounted! gotta get that new muffler lined up and welded in place!
no new here yet.. still no work on the car!
ended up bending one of my 19" rims on my W210 tonight.. hit a pothole. I saw it as I was changing lanes, tried to move out of the way but too late. hit the pothole.. bent my rim and put a huge slit in the tire. so need a NEW tire and have to get the rim straightened. also noticed it put a bit of a bend in my rear rim as well.. but luckily no tire damage. so 2 rims to get fixed! suuuuuuuuuuucks balls! |
Got it this time thanks man!...Just a thought,You might never find split spray in that size as its generally to much fuel to spray and atomise that close to the ports..hence they go to single jet as they get larger!.
Haha yeh couldnt wait to get it painted and all fitted up,turns out the exhaust cutout sits alot further to the left than my original...have decided to make the rear muffler again this time the whole body of it too(LOL)but will use the insides of the magnaflow mufflers i have.
Have decided not to use two mufflers at the rear,and the divert valve will just regulate flow rather than divert it. that way the system is lighter and it will allow me to relocate and alighn it to the C36 bumper.
heres a pic showing the all silver look!
First thing im going to make on the mill is that bracket to hold the coolant pipes on the turbo...iv been waiting months for that at the engineers^^
Oh man that suuucks about the bent rims!!!...how many is that now? lol....Geez that must end up costing!
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| Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:05 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:42 pm |
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Pagz
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Actually,there having a big clean up with the work email system atm,saying it is strictly for work purposes etc,i will forward you my other address it definitely has no restrictions^^
Yeh the whole plenum thing...its not really nessasary to replace it until it becomes a restriction...in my case i replaced it purely because i wanted to run the larger TB setup as well as do away with the tight corners up there...if you could keep your plenum and run twin spray 550 - 600cc injectors im sure you will have plenty of fun at much less hassel for the time being!
Haha,have you found any "stainless" trim yet?...sounds wierd to say that....lets just call it chrome^^.
Lmao...yeh the muffler saga^^...i couldnt save myself if i tried...spent a few days PS'ing different muffler shapes to a pic i took with the new bumper on,emailed it to a few guys at work for discussion,now iv drawn up the muffler body and its in at the sheet metal guys,hopefully see it next week.
Im no longer diverting the exhaust gas through two or just one muffler as i initially built...instead im going the easy way and just mounting the valve in line with the exhaust...a bit like what Apexi make!...however it will be boost activated wide open with a 5.5psi diaphram,that way i get some noise restriction when im cruising...also becuase i no longer require that heavy twin muffler setup at the rear that was a very tight fit,i can make a nicer looking single muffler that sits just where i want it too,magnaflow dont make any mufflers that are anywhere near the right shape or size for the 202,hence why im making the body,however i will use a combination of all the magnaflow internals(they have great perforation and packing) as i literally have stacks of old ones around the garage lol.
Im just sourcing a carbide cutter for the mill so will gets some pics!,i need to mill out a portion of the valve body...looks like thats the first job for the mill now.
OUCH...it has cost you thousands in bent rims then!..i was pissed off enough with the council when i bent my diesel wagons 15" rim on the motorway,and it only cost $150 to repair.
Holy,the 210 must be pretty sacked now?...any chance to get pics yet??
Oh also i did some research on the quaife,and it apears they are only availible for some of the larger diffs like in the W210 V8(210mm) etc
Did you find a smaller quaife for the R124 diff??...yours is the R124 right? 0.o ...also my 3.46 ratio could mean i need to space the crown gear but thats not much of a problem...its just i dont want to run the 210mm diff as its fricken heavy^^.
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| Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:50 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
Actually,there having a big clean up with the work email system atm,saying it is strictly for work purposes etc,i will forward you my other address it definitely has no restrictions^^
Yeh the whole plenum thing...its not really nessasary to replace it until it becomes a restriction...in my case i replaced it purely because i wanted to run the larger TB setup as well as do away with the tight corners up there...if you could keep your plenum and run twin spray 550 - 600cc injectors im sure you will have plenty of fun at much less hassel for the time being!
Haha,have you found any "stainless" trim yet?...sounds wierd to say that....lets just call it chrome^^.
Lmao...yeh the muffler saga^^...i couldnt save myself if i tried...spent a few days PS'ing different muffler shapes to a pic i took with the new bumper on,emailed it to a few guys at work for discussion,now iv drawn up the muffler body and its in at the sheet metal guys,hopefully see it next week.
Im no longer diverting the exhaust gas through two or just one muffler as i initially built...instead im going the easy way and just mounting the valve in line with the exhaust...a bit like what Apexi make!...however it will be boost activated wide open with a 5.5psi diaphram,that way i get some noise restriction when im cruising...also becuase i no longer require that heavy twin muffler setup at the rear that was a very tight fit,i can make a nicer looking single muffler that sits just where i want it too,magnaflow dont make any mufflers that are anywhere near the right shape or size for the 202,hence why im making the body,however i will use a combination of all the magnaflow internals(they have great perforation and packing) as i literally have stacks of old ones around the garage lol.
Im just sourcing a carbide cutter for the mill so will gets some pics!,i need to mill out a portion of the valve body...looks like thats the first job for the mill now.
OUCH...it has cost you thousands in bent rims then!..i was pissed off enough with the council when i bent my diesel wagons 15" rim on the motorway,and it only cost $150 to repair.
Holy,the 210 must be pretty sacked now?...any chance to get pics yet??
Oh also i did some research on the quaife,and it apears they are only availible for some of the larger diffs like in the W210 V8(210mm) etc
Did you find a smaller quaife for the R124 diff??...yours is the R124 right? 0.o ...also my 3.46 ratio could mean i need to space the crown gear but thats not much of a problem...its just i dont want to run the 210mm diff as its fricken heavy^^. |
Work getting their panties in a twist are they?!
I agree.. but I LOVE the way a custom intake manifold looks.. I would just do it purely for the look!! but I would like to run a large throttle body as well. I have a couple laying around.. so I have a choice between 74m or 80mm. not too sure if they are "too big" or not.. but we will see. what's yours again Paul? 60mm?
but for now.. just keep the stock plenum and run some larger split spray injectors. oh I will for sure have fun with some 550cc's! if I can have just over 300 to the wheels.. that will keep me happy for now!
no.. I haven't even thought about getting the chrome trim for the rear bumper! will have to source the pieces out soon though. gonna need to finish off that bumper. looks off without the trim there!
That is not a saga.. its a muffler trilogy! nice.. so you will be having a custom muffler shell constructed then. Thats exactly what I will be doing as well.. but I will also be fabing up the internals too.. I will try and copy a C36 muffler.. but I do love the magnaflow sound.. they are very nicely put together for sound. I've seen those apexi mufflers!.. always wondered why the hell it looked like that! Thats pretty trick though.. have a diaphram activated with boost. those old designs must have weighed a bunch man!.. unnecessary weight you've added to the w202! lol.. I can imagine, you must have a few of those mufflers laying around!
Cant wait to see some pics of the mill in action!
well luckily the other wheels I have bent I haven't had fixed yet.. I'm hoping that if I give the guy I have fixing the one Mandrus wheel right now 4 other wheels to straighten he will do it for a good price. so we shall see! still waiting on this front one to be done. as soon as I hit I heard the psssssssssssshhhhhhhhh of the air rushing out of the tire.. I just yelled out F$CK!
Pics of the W210 how it is sitting.. may be lowered more next week, I'll try and get some decent quality shots of her this weekend:
Im not too sure.. but the parts that I had listed on my quote from Quaife were 170 PN I believe. my diff is a 3.27. yes I'm pretty sure my diff is a 124 PN.. but that could just be the back cover! when you do contact them about it, they will ask for your VIN number to check what is the correct kit for your car. I really want to order mine!!
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*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:06 pm |
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Pagz
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Definitley getting more twisted!
Yeh have to agree the custom plenum looks the part!..i have a 68mm TB and its plenty imo,if you go to big the throttle becomes incredibly over responsive,and while that sounds ok i sometimes wish mine wasnt so much.
the 210 looks GREAT at that hieght!...maybe about 10mm more in the front and i wouldnt go any lower personally but thats just me;)
those wheels look awsome too!
Iv done a bit more research on the Quaife...as it turns out you need the 210mm crown gear and larger case to run them(like the C32/C55)...im looking into a W203 C240 case part # starts with 210 but im not sure if it has the 210mm crown gear yet (It has a 3.67 ratio^^) the MB parts lists show the diff rear cover from the CLK430 will bolt onto the 210 case and will then the diff will bolt upto the W202(as the 208 has the same rear sub frame)
the outcome may be that i have to space the crown gear...just trying to get my hands on one now.
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| Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:20 am |
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Pagz
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| Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:00 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:42 pm |
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Pagz
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80mm is a pretty massive TB for a 2.3L^^...Yep it will make light load and idle hard to tune!
Its likely the stock plenum and runners will be better for low - mid power than any custom set you will make,its hard to say just how good they are and how much of the power band is effected by the longer smaller runner diameter... i wish i had have tested mine with before and after dyno's but that's a bit of a tricky thing to do!.
I haven't spoken to Quaife yet but from what your saying i think i definitely will...if you go to there web site it only shows 3 diffs available for MB...these are all 210mm diffs...so unless they have made new models that are not shown on there site...or you have the 210mm already in your car?? than i wouldn't have thought there was one...iv even seen threads on a C43 guy removing his diff for the W201 R124 case and clutch type LSD,of which he destroyed the pinion...apparently he is fitting the 210mm case now with a Quaife...which confuses me i thought the C43 would have had the larger diff already!!?!? Whats the part # on the side of your diff?
I would think the rest of the inside of the Eisenmann muffler is just fibreglass packing...I think usually the larger the body,the better it absorbs and sounds so they have made use of the extra space to do this!...the internals on the C36 are a restrictive design!,very effective at noise reduction though...i can draw you the design if you like?
EDIT: Interesting comments by wiki...this makes me think the C43 runs the same diff as ours,and they have upgraded to the 210mm when they did the C55 202.
"C 43 AMG upgraded specifications (W202 C 55)"
"Rear axle general
* New rear axle centrepiece : i=2.82 with new driveshaft
* New rear axle wheel flange
* New propeller shaft with 4-arm flanges – PCD=110 mm
[edit] Floorpan
* The floorpan of the upgraded C 43 (under the rear seats) had to be modified in order to accommodate the larger rear axle centrepiece"
EDIT #2 found this from that C43 owner...it would seem the C43 uses the W210 case?...
"For those not aware I had managed to shear 5 teeth off of the drive pinion in my 190e LSD about a month ago. This prompted an upgrade I was hoping to put off for the future. I discovered that the 210mm diff. was capable of being installed into my chassis with a few factory parts. As many have come to know this is the upgrade that was offered to the few owners that opted for the C55 package offered by Mercedes AMG division. They came with the CLK55 (208) E55 (210) differential with the standard 2.82 ratio."
All these diff numbers are doing me in lol....MBworld thread
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| Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:00 am |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
80mm is a pretty massive TB for a 2.3L^^...Yep it will make light load and idle hard to tune!
Its likely the stock plenum and runners will be better for low - mid power than any custom set you will make,its hard to say just how good they are and how much of the power band is effected by the longer smaller runner diameter... i wish i had have tested mine with before and after dyno's but that's a bit of a tricky thing to do!.
I haven't spoken to Quaife yet but from what your saying i think i definitely will...if you go to there web site it only shows 3 diffs available for MB...these are all 210mm diffs...so unless they have made new models that are not shown on there site...or you have the 210mm already in your car?? than i wouldn't have thought there was one...iv even seen threads on a C43 guy removing his diff for the W201 R124 case and clutch type LSD,of which he destroyed the pinion...apparently he is fitting the 210mm case now with a Quaife...which confuses me i thought the C43 would have had the larger diff already!!?!? Whats the part # on the side of your diff?
I would think the rest of the inside of the Eisenmann muffler is just fibreglass packing...I think usually the larger the body,the better it absorbs and sounds so they have made use of the extra space to do this!...the internals on the C36 are a restrictive design!,very effective at noise reduction though...i can draw you the design if you like?
EDIT: Interesting comments by wiki...this makes me think the C43 runs the same diff as ours,and they have upgraded to the 210mm when they did the C55 202.
"C 43 AMG upgraded specifications (W202 C 55)"
"Rear axle general
* New rear axle centrepiece : i=2.82 with new driveshaft
* New rear axle wheel flange
* New propeller shaft with 4-arm flanges – PCD=110 mm
[edit] Floorpan
* The floorpan of the upgraded C 43 (under the rear seats) had to be modified in order to accommodate the larger rear axle centrepiece"
EDIT #2 found this from that C43 owner...it would seem the C43 uses the W210 case?...
"For those not aware I had managed to shear 5 teeth off of the drive pinion in my 190e LSD about a month ago. This prompted an upgrade I was hoping to put off for the future. I discovered that the 210mm diff. was capable of being installed into my chassis with a few factory parts. As many have come to know this is the upgrade that was offered to the few owners that opted for the C55 package offered by Mercedes AMG division. They came with the CLK55 (208) E55 (210) differential with the standard 2.82 ratio."
All these diff numbers are doing me in lol....MBworld thread |
So I guess I'll scrap the 80mm throttle body idea and just go with a 74mm I have. or find something a bit smaller. I've got a few throttle bodies laying around! and when it comes time to fab the plenum, I will try and keep the runners the same length and diameter as stock to keep at least a similar power band. I know.. it would have been VERY tricky for you to do a before and after dyno for your plenum.. but it would have been interesting to see the gains and difference.
I know, Quaife doesnt have all the LSD options for mercedes listed on the site.. and plus that is the american site. when I contacted Quaife they referred me to the UK division of Quaife to talk to them about an LSD option for the W202. I mean if you want to you can source out a different diff and piece it together and buy the LSD for a 210mm housing, but I think that is overkill and just spending way more money then you need to. The LSD for my W202 stock 3.27 Diff uses an R170 assembly inside. I'm pretty sure the back cover on my diff has a w124 part number, as for the housing I'm not sure.
So the housing size on the Eisenmann is relative to the amount of noise it absorbs and can put out? I guess the C36 muff has way too many baffles in it then! well if you can give me accurate dimensions of the c36 muffler then that would be asweome Paul. I was going to buy a second had C36 muffler so I could make a template off of it and then construct my own out of SS.
I had a read through that thread, I'm wondering if he swapped his diff out for the 210mm diff, I think the stock C43's came with a diff similar to ours. and this guy has just upgraded the diff to the 210mm for whatever reason. It's definitely heavy duty, but I don't think it is needed. and I'm sure it has to be heavier as well!
I'm still sticking with the Quaife drop in LSD that is meant for my stock diff. it will work no problem.
_________________
*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:52 pm |
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Pagz
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Yea i think you would be best to lean on the smaller side for the TB,just based on how touchy mine is at 68mm!...just like large injectors it becomes difficult to regulate small amounts of air with a large TB!.
When we made my plenum it wasnt possible(unless we machined tube) to make the runners the same diameter as stock,however i think there around 3mm larger ...another thing to consider is alot of oem runners tapper slightly as they head towards the ports,this apparently improves velocity however its pretty tricky to custom make unless you go pro with the CNC or cast it,i just hand ground my flange until it blended with the ports and pipe size..........just shove sh!t loads of pressure in there im sure that somewhat negates any need for special runner design^^.
The only reason i would be going 210mm was to run a Quaife...i will do nearly anything to run the stock diff instead!!
Iv emailed Quaife UK for the facts!. So does the R170 carrier use 185mm crown gear??...
Sorry i dont have the dimensions of the C36 muffler anymore...but it looks identical to your Eisenmann!...
Generally the muffler body size helps with absorption,the larger the better to some degree...i would imagine there is a point where body size stops having any effect though and it becomes a matter of how long it is(in a pure straight through design).
Heres a pic of why the 36 is so quiet...the twink is actually touch up paint for my toyota hence the colour^^haha.
The inlet actually sits under the two outlet pipes from the chamber...but iv drawn it so its easier on the eyes.
As you can see that massive chamber at the front would kill noise...as well as the restriction it posses when gas enters,hits a wall,stumbles around in the dark until it finally finds its way out the two smaller ports....
Yeh hes upgraded it to the 210mm because he runs the E55K engine in that C43 so is pulling pretty serious torques i would imagine...hence why the 190 16v LSD got wrecked.
I get this strangle feeling the stock C43 runs a slightly larger diff than us(maybe part #210...)i need to confirm...tried to call my parts guys today but they were busy  .
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| Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:34 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:11 pm |
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Pagz
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"Bigger is better"...you know this doesnt always apply^^ I remember doing quite a bit of research on runner design when we built mine,however in the end we made it based on practicality and cost,so i would assume its no where near as efficient as it should be!...plenum design should really be so every runner gets equal air opportunity(like the stock item).
I spoke to birds and they said they have not seen my diff before with the 3.46 ratio so cannot confirm fitment (124 case 124 carrier),the diff they initially quoted me was QDF28V(not shown on there we sight however i later found out its likely a misprint and QDF8V is what they were meaning.QDF8V is the same as the QDF7V only made to carry higher ratios like mine) Iv spoken with a few other guys that have fitted quaife to there final drives and everyone agrees that they only make the carrier to suit the 210mm crown gear(this 210mm size could be in a number of diff cases and carriers so it will be tricky to find a good ratio) The plan is to pull out my diff and measure it up...failing that i want to try a diff from a 91 - 94 S280(non US) as they come with either a 3.46 or 3.69 gear set in a W210 case and 140 carrier...this is larger than mine so may work but i would need to source one and measure it...sounds risky and expensive.
I think the guy with the 202 55k will be using a 220 case size(or what ever the one from the E55 or E55K uses)Pretty this is bigger than the usual W210 cases.
EPC says the C43 uses a W210 case with 202 carrier...not sure what size gears are in there but i would assume its no good as he would have simply installed the quaife in there if he could have?.
Interesting about the R170 number you quoted,i will do some more searching into that.
Yeh that Eisenmann muffler is hell pricey!...definitely sell that one on!
Just a thought when you make your exhaust system,when i was on the dyno last time we get some black smoke even though the afr look spot on,just thinking about this today and where we have the O2 sensor plugged in might not help,that is,when my system diverts through the wastegate,it also diverts past the sensor^^...now this may or may not be causing the black smoke,but i wouldn't think it helps!. something to consider when building yours!.
Got the flu or petrol/chemical poisoning atm,going back to bed now^^.
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| Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:50 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Pagz wrote: |
"Bigger is better"...you know this doesnt always apply^^ I remember doing quite a bit of research on runner design when we built mine,however in the end we made it based on practicality and cost,so i would assume its no where near as efficient as it should be!...plenum design should really be so every runner gets equal air opportunity(like the stock item).
I spoke to birds and they said they have not seen my diff before with the 3.46 ratio so cannot confirm fitment (124 case 124 carrier),the diff they initially quoted me was QDF28V(not shown on there we sight however i later found out its likely a misprint and QDF8V is what they were meaning.QDF8V is the same as the QDF7V only made to carry higher ratios like mine) Iv spoken with a few other guys that have fitted quaife to there final drives and everyone agrees that they only make the carrier to suit the 210mm crown gear(this 210mm size could be in a number of diff cases and carriers so it will be tricky to find a good ratio) The plan is to pull out my diff and measure it up...failing that i want to try a diff from a 91 - 94 S280(non US) as they come with either a 3.46 or 3.69 gear set in a W210 case and 140 carrier...this is larger than mine so may work but i would need to source one and measure it...sounds risky and expensive.
I think the guy with the 202 55k will be using a 220 case size(or what ever the one from the E55 or E55K uses)Pretty this is bigger than the usual W210 cases.
EPC says the C43 uses a W210 case with 202 carrier...not sure what size gears are in there but i would assume its no good as he would have simply installed the quaife in there if he could have?.
Interesting about the R170 number you quoted,i will do some more searching into that.
Yeh that Eisenmann muffler is hell pricey!...definitely sell that one on!
Just a thought when you make your exhaust system,when i was on the dyno last time we get some black smoke even though the afr look spot on,just thinking about this today and where we have the O2 sensor plugged in might not help,that is,when my system diverts through the wastegate,it also diverts past the sensor^^...now this may or may not be causing the black smoke,but i wouldn't think it helps!. something to consider when building yours!.
Got the flu or petrol/chemical poisoning atm,going back to bed now^^. |
what is going to make it more "efficient" though? the length of the runner, the size and shape of the plenum, the angle the velocity stacks are at? looks like I'l be doing some serious research as well! on a boosted car I would expect every runner to get equal amounts of air as its all being forced in.
so now I wonder why your diff is different?! sounds like you're looking for issues with sourcing out a diff that may or may not work! those 140 diffs are huge! Id say look for a diff like mine.. or bump up to the C43 diff with the 210 case. I have a spare diff for my car, but it needs to be rebuilt.. needs a new pinion and ring gear (from when I grenaded mine a few years back!). I am going to try and get it rebuilt for a decent price so I have a spare one.
Really.. I thought the 220 diff was completely different then the w202 ones?.. I think they bolt to the car differently don't they? I know for the fact the w211 Kompressor diffs bolt to the car completely differently then the 202's. so maybe he is using a c43 diff with the LSD in it?
maybe an slk diff would work too?.. but the part number they gave me in my LSD quote had a 170 PN.
When I eventually get the Eisenmann off my car.. it will be up for sale!
Good tip! I'll have to take that into consideration. but are you talking about where your wastegate plumbs back into the down pipe? cause if thats the case I'm going to be venting mine to atmosphere anyways.. so no issue!
still no progress! havent worked on her much lately. not much I can do. I still need to cut out the brackets for the intercooler core, I've finally gotten into contact with the guy form Evosport again about my heat exchanger, so that is on order now. another thing to mock up and make brackets for when that comes in.
I have a list a mile long of things I need to do! once the intercooler is mounted I'll be able to work on other things. will need to remove the new aux engine fan and modify it slightly for fitment of the intercooler. so many small things that hold up the larger things!
Have LED tail lights on order for my w210 and w202, have new headlights on order for my w202 as I noticed the mounting clips are broken on one of them. have a trunk lid lip spoiler on order for my w210 also! U.S headlight switch for my w210 so I can wire up my halo rings and my fogs. will be ordering HID kits for my w210 low beams and fog lights.
still have to order my Quaife LSD for my w202, still need lots of parts for my w202!! the list of things to do and buy never ends!
Hope you feel better soon Paul, how you get petrol or chemical poisoning??
_________________
*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:45 am |
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spruceimage
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specclutch.com makes up to stage 7 look into it im planning to get an upgrade from them
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| Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:08 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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| Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:44 am |
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spruceimage
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Location: Los Angeles
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Oh yeah Im definitely aware of that. Yeah if I upgrade depending on the torque Ill go for something like Stage 1 or 2 also. Yeah I search the web everyday for any parts for my car. No problem. Look into it. If they do not have it send them a message like I did. I got a quick reply back and they told me what they offered for my car.
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| Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:48 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 801
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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Did a bit of work on my W202 today!.. FINALLY!!
snapped a few pics with my New camera (Nikon D90, just got it friday!)
I started wiring up my new Suction/Aux fan that replaced the 2 small a/c fans in front of the condenser, the new Aux fan mounts behind the rad in front of the engine.
I've hacked into the stock wiring harness somewhat!.. but I'm doing a nice job of it, as I cut the entire stock loom open to get at the wires I no longer need, and to run the new wires. so everything will look OEM, once I tape it back up! not done the wiring yet, still have to wire up the rest of the control module, so far have run the power and ground for the new fan control unit, next will need to run the 15 circuit and the pwm wire to the fan control unit, and then the power and ground to the aux fan. so I'm keeping the stock wiring loom open until I complete that, then I will rewrap the entire harness back in OEM fabric tape. (the second pic is the old harness from the old fan control unit to the twin a/c condenser fans) I've removed that enitire harness now to run the new plug and wiring)
I've also installed my new Zeitronix gauge and single gauge pod on a new a-pillar I picked up a few months ago. still have to wire up the Zeitronix module, and run the Wide band o2, and also the Boost sensor.
The gauge is now an a/f meter, boost gauge and data logger.
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*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:05 pm |
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eundaddy
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Joined: 10 Dec 2009
Posts: 27
Posts per day: 0.1
Location: Reston, VA
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| does your steering wheel functions work? what is that off of, its sexy as hell. |
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| Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:27 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 801
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:14 pm |
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Pagz
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Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 54
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Location: New Zealand
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I think to a large degree the rules remain the same for n/a or f/i plenum design,but definitely dig up some info before you build one!
Yeh the 220 is completely different,there would be changes to all drive shafts if i had to run one,i need to open up a diff with the ratios i want and measure up the fitment!.
On my setup the o2 sensor we use for dyno tuning is mounted directly behind the turbine housing on the down pipe,which is pretty common,however iv been doing some investigation into why i get some black smoke under power even though AFR's look good,one idea is that when we are under boost,alot of the exhaust gas is bypassing the o2 sensor via the wastegate so we may be getting slightly false AFR readings...however you would think that weather you had half the exhaust flow or all of it you should still get the same afr...anyways,i read an installation file for o2's on motec's site and it recommends mounting them much further away from the engine than i have it for best life,so im installing the o2 just after the down pipe heads under the chassis atm(which is after where the wastegate comes back in so kills two birds at once)
The steering wheel,dash and gauge upgrade you have looks awsome!,that new camera is definitley worth it^^
Man,your list of bits must be massive^^im glad im not in the middle of a turbo build anymore,very poor time in my life^^.
good to see things are moving,fan install looks great!,what lights are you putting in the 202 this time?
you guys use salt on the roads over there in winter? so hard on the steel!!!.
I did alittle work on Jenn's car last week as its been having problems for a while,replaced the fuel filter in the engine bay and took out the fuel pump etc to check for blockages,pump was a pain to take out as its submerged in fuel so ended up breathing way to much fuel vapour,even managed to squirt fuel in my eye,lol. anyway long story short i got a cough 4 hours later + mad flu pretty much 10 hours after,it just so happens to much petrol over a prolonged period in life makes for the same symtoms as flu...so not sure if it was flu or petrol that caused it but im still having problems 10 days later.
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| Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:39 pm |
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SLAMMED_C
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 801
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Pagz wrote: |
I think to a large degree the rules remain the same for n/a or f/i plenum design,but definitely dig up some info before you build one!
Yeh the 220 is completely different,there would be changes to all drive shafts if i had to run one,i need to open up a diff with the ratios i want and measure up the fitment!.
On my setup the o2 sensor we use for dyno tuning is mounted directly behind the turbine housing on the down pipe,which is pretty common,however iv been doing some investigation into why i get some black smoke under power even though AFR's look good,one idea is that when we are under boost,alot of the exhaust gas is bypassing the o2 sensor via the wastegate so we may be getting slightly false AFR readings...however you would think that weather you had half the exhaust flow or all of it you should still get the same afr...anyways,i read an installation file for o2's on motec's site and it recommends mounting them much further away from the engine than i have it for best life,so im installing the o2 just after the down pipe heads under the chassis atm(which is after where the wastegate comes back in so kills two birds at once)
The steering wheel,dash and gauge upgrade you have looks awsome!,that new camera is definitley worth it^^
Man,your list of bits must be massive^^im glad im not in the middle of a turbo build anymore,very poor time in my life^^.
good to see things are moving,fan install looks great!,what lights are you putting in the 202 this time?
you guys use salt on the roads over there in winter? so hard on the steel!!!.
I did alittle work on Jenn's car last week as its been having problems for a while,replaced the fuel filter in the engine bay and took out the fuel pump etc to check for blockages,pump was a pain to take out as its submerged in fuel so ended up breathing way to much fuel vapour,even managed to squirt fuel in my eye,lol. anyway long story short i got a cough 4 hours later + mad flu pretty much 10 hours after,it just so happens to much petrol over a prolonged period in life makes for the same symtoms as flu...so not sure if it was flu or petrol that caused it but im still having problems 10 days later. |
I will have to do some research on it! I want it to be functional as well look dope! mainly look dope!
that sounds like waaaaaay too much work Paul! I wouldnt even bother with the w220 diff.. I know it mounts differently as well.. so you'd have to make custom mounts for it in the subframe. good project for your mill drill!! but I'd stick with a diff like mine.. easy to drop an LSD into it!
So you think that mounting the wideband o2 further down the downpipe would be best? I'll have to check and see if Zeitronix recommends mounting it at a certain spot on the downpipe. I was going to put my wideband near the stock front o2, but I'll have to see how close it will be to the turbo when its mounted!
sounds like a plan, kill 2 birds with one stone and hopefully get it running perfect.
Thanks!! its a W210 E55 steering wheel with the multifunction, and W208 CLK55 multifunction cluster.. multifunction works awesome and looks killer.
The new gauge on my A-pillar isn't wired up yet, but I will attempt to do this maybe on the weekend if time permits! the main thing I want to tackle is getting the Aux Fan all buttoned up. so we'll see how that goes and if I have time to wire up the Zeitronix gauge. The gauge is a Boost guage and wideband o2, as well as a data logger. so should come in handy.
the camera is definitely worth it!.. I just need to learn how to use it!! it takes amazing pictures though. so now I have no excuse to post up great pics of all the mods from here on in!
Yeh.. you know how it is.. lists and lists of bits and bobs.. still need to buy a bunch of things.. mainly just to have them even though they wont be put into the car for a lil bit. at least I know I have it and its ready to go.
if you knew what you were in for when you did the turbo project to your w202.. do you think you would have still done it?!
Fan install is going pretty smooth, will need to remove the fan to modify the shroud slightly for some clearance for my intercooler. but other then that its going good, the wiring is going pretty easy also. I just hope it works when its all in! it should, I'm taking a pmw off of my ME, the pwm signals the fan control unit I have (from a r170), and then the control unit tells the fans to turn on. just need to run my pmw signal wire and the 15 circuit and I'm all done that.
I'm trying to get a new set of the black housing single piece projectors, but with the Halo rings. I noticed that one of the lights was broken where the mounting tabs are, so I decided on a new set! I've ordered them, so lets see if they come!!
yes.. lots of salt on the roads in the winter.. sooooo harsh on the cars. but luckily the w202 will never see the winter again! just have to worry about the w210 now.. I'll probably get it oil sprayed this year. see if it helps keep rust away.. knock on wood my w210 is rust free atm!
That sucks.. hope you feel better soon.. but its for the misses! so better get her car all fixed up mang.
_________________
*1999 C230Kompressor- aka C23k* soon C23T!!
--N/A Converted Belt Drive--SLOW AS FUCK!!--18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--Blacked Out Grill--Black Projector Headlights--C36 Rear--
COMING SOON: Brabus Front--Custom Turbo Project Begins--6 Speed Manual Trans Swap--LED/Smoked Tails--New Projector Headlights--17" Wheels For Track--Quaife LSD--
*2002 E320 4Matic*
--Cut Springs--Bluetooth--Voice Control--Euro Comand--Roof GPS Antenna--MB TV Tuner--DVD Player--///AMG E55 Front and Rear Bumpers with Fogs--Black Housing Halo Projector Headlights--Staggered 19" Mandrus Emil's--LED daytime running lights--Custom Exhaust--
COMING SOON: --8000K Low Beam and Fogs--LED/Smoked Tails--Trunk Lip Spoiler-- |
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| Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:30 pm |
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Pagz
n00b
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 54
Posts per day: 0.16
Location: New Zealand
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The bosch o2 sensors used in most kits have a similar installation recommendation,heres some good reading if you have time,select the bosch LSU 4.2 its possibly what your kit came with? Data sheets
Im happy you got a decent camera...it was long overdue^^
"if you knew what you were in for when you did the turbo project to your w202.. do you think you would have still done it?! "
thats a hard one,probably not,instead i think i would have gone with a mad N/A V8/manual ,however regardless of path one thing iv learnt is that it has to be about the journey because i can tell you the end is very short lived^^
That cluster just looks awsome...can you run just the cluster without the steering wheel/stereo etc?
Sounds like you have the fan install under control,would like to do that to mine too however it would need to be a custom shroud as theres no way im moving the radiator anymore^^ im lost in PMW/ME? explain more!(think i remember what those mean from those wiring diagrams you sent a few years back but its been a while)
they make W202 headlights with halo's?
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